When Do You Give Up On A Niche Site?
April 4th, 2008 by CourtLately we have been talking quite a bit about a few different concepts that relate directly to SEO (search engine optimization) of keyword sniping sites. Discussing SEO is difficult because there are a lot of different circumstances that can come into play, but people always ask about when their sites should be getting traffic.
If your site is taking forever to get traffic, should you ditch it?
The traffic delay with a niche site is directly related to the Google sandbox (more on the sandbox here). Google seems to have keywords placed into different categories, and it can take a lot longer to get ranked for keywords depending on what category the keyword falls under. Based on my experience, there are at least three different keyword levels (probably a lot more):
- Ultra competitive - These keywords take an eternity to rank for. If you find yourself targeting one of these keywords you have a long wait. Virtually every site that targets one of these will get sandboxed - there’s nothing that you can do to avoid it. You must include waiting for 12 months as part of your strategy.
- Moderately competitive - If you target a moderately competitive keyword, you may get sandboxed but the sandboxing won’t last for very long. You might find yourself in the sand for 2-4 months and after that you can get a top ranking.
- Not very competitive - Google apparently needs information for these keywords so you will often avoid the sandbox altogether with this type of keyword. I have had sites get #1 rankings within one week and never get sandboxed.
Grizzly from Make Money For Beginners hit the nail on the head in a comment here when he said, “pick the wrong keyword and nothing will save you from a day at the beach.”
Some of you at this point are going to ask how you tell what level a keyword is in. The honest answer is that you really can’t. Of course, if a keyword has 80,000,000 results in Google (like internet marketing) you know that it’s probably the super competitive kind. If it has 0 results in Google it’s probably not very competitive and Google will probably never sandbox the site. The rest of the keywords out there will fall somewhere in the middle and will face varying degrees of sandboxing.
Hopefully you can see the complication in explaining how long you should work on a site before it should have traffic. I would never, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever (do you get the idea?), ever ditch a site unless it was banned from Google. If you aren’t able to get traffic to a site within 12 months, you probably have another problem that isn’t the sandbox. If that’s the case, switch to a less competitive keyword. Even if you make a dollar a day on the site it’s worth keeping.
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April 4th, 2008 at 3:21 pm
Well if you are a noob and went for the holy grail of the bat like mmm “credit card” maybe he should just set that one to the side for a while and make one on ants LMAO.
Court give me a shout on Skype really need to talk
April 5th, 2008 at 11:33 am
Yeah ‘credit card’ probably isn’t the best idea for a noob…we were all noobs once upon a time though right?
April 4th, 2008 at 3:22 pm
On a niche blog I made the mistake of targeting a very competitive keyword from the start. After months of no improvement I switched to a new, but related, keyword set that wasn’t as competitive and worked a lot of long tail terms. Gradually traffic has improved as it began to rank for the new terms and particularly long tails associated with them.
So, my advice is if you made my mistake, side slipping a little can get you some traffic.
April 5th, 2008 at 11:34 am
Yeah that was probably a good idea Frank. Super competitive keywords simply take a really, really, really long time. The long tail is the way to go to get traffic in the meantime.. thanks for your thoughts!
April 4th, 2008 at 4:57 pm
Court it’s probably worth mentioning that it is possible to make page 1 for ultra competitive terms as you have proven with “Internet Marketing” and myself with “Make Money Online” but you have to learn the basics of SEO first and have patience. Any niche can be overcome including Vic’s “Credit Card” but anyone thinking this can be done without a game plan, hard work and persistence is fooling themselves. I didn’t mind sitting in the “box” for a few months as I new the rewards would be worth it.
Unfortunately too many beginners are in a hurry to see results and give up before giving things a chance. Your Lasik site is a prime example of why people need to just relax and let things run their course - if things are done right it always works out in the end.
I like your take on when to give up on a site - never, as Frank pointed out - just re-tool it and make it work.
Thanks Court and I hope all is well.
April 4th, 2008 at 9:41 pm
Grizz noobs get links today and then they start looking at their stats every few hours to see where they ar at now LMAO when in reality if you make your plan even before making the site you already have a clear view of where you will be at and about when.
April 5th, 2008 at 11:36 am
So true Griz. The people that are able to make it seem to be unusually persistent, patient, and hardworking at the same time. I personally believe that most people could do it, it just comes down to how long they are willing to fight for it.
The education process takes some time, fortunately there are resources such as your site where people can learn how to make it happen.
April 6th, 2008 at 3:37 am
I think internet marketing is like everything else in life. Making money at IM, is no different than running your own business (hell it is running your own business).
The reason most people stick to their 9-5 is the lack of an entrepreneur spirit. Most people fall apart if they must be self motivated and self structured. I believe everyone could do this, but at the end of the day most will fail or quit. And not because internet marketing is SO hard, but for the same reasons they don’t own their own business, do investments, or trade real estate.
I know thats a little negative, but looking around, most people don’t have the self motivation.
I know Vic says its all about the the back links, but it honestly comes down to persistence. Do you have what it takes to sit for hours just generating links and keep focus.
April 8th, 2008 at 5:18 am
I don’t think that’s being negative, Justin. I think you’re absolutely correct.
Here’s the good news. That means those who do find what it takes to self-motivate are that much more ahead of the curve.
April 4th, 2008 at 5:50 pm
Frank’s experience (2 posts above) is a great one for newbies.
If you are failing at your chosen keyword because it is too competitive, start to target a lot of the long tail keywords, and not only will they be easier to rank for (which means increased traffic) but as you rank higher for more long tail keywords, your ranking for your main keyword (which means even further increased traffic)
Like Court has said in other posts, if your site gets sandboxed, move onto working on the next site.
April 5th, 2008 at 8:27 am
When I opened my eShop last August I had absolutely NO clue about internet marketing or SEO or anything like that. I have learnt since then, obviously. The funny thing is, not knowing about keywords, etc I ended up targeting ultra competitive keywords (designer sunglasses, sunglasses, to name a couple) and from nothing I am now changing from between bottom of first page to top of second page in Google UK (my target area) for these keywords!
Around Xmas I decided to enter niche marketing and through the various tools available managed to target and isolate very relevant keywords with hardly any competition yet I am no-where for my keywords and I’m lucky to get even 10(!) visitors per site! As for making any money…
My point is, when I try to rank I fail, and when I don’t expect to rank I rock!
April 5th, 2008 at 8:47 am
No, I shall never ever ditch my site. I shall persevere till I take it where I want it. I am aware that it will take time, and I am prepared to wait.
April 5th, 2008 at 9:13 am
I don’t think you should ever give up. As long as you have unique content and no major navigation issues, the search engines will always find you and give you some love.
April 5th, 2008 at 12:28 pm
how do you know when there is navigation issues?
April 6th, 2008 at 3:44 am
For search engine navigation:
You want to be able to access all/most of your pages within 2-4 clicks.
This can be done by:
Sitemap (HTML and XML)
Related posts plugin
Plugin to show posts in side bar
Deep linking posts (on site and off site)
Tag Cloud
If a page A is just linked off 1 page (page B). And page B is an old buried page… then Google may never find page A.
Another reason deep linking off site is useful. It lets Google know about those pages, and gives various entry points to your site, and not just the top level domain.
April 5th, 2008 at 11:04 am
I think it is very importnat to mention that before you start, I strongly recommend buying an aged domain! I just recently bought a 1999 domain (click on Drunk above) and starting promoting Amazon products. With an aged domain it is much easier to rank. But it will still take up to 1 year to be at where you want to be. Never give up!
April 5th, 2008 at 5:07 pm
Great work Court. This is another post that i should just copy/paste into certain forum posts.
I am a very active member in certain forums primarily used by newbies looking for help. What’s one of the key “complaints”?
“I have had my site online for a WHOLE TWO WEEKS (or insert your own insanely small time-span) and I’ve tried EVERYTHING (gotta love that one), but STILL no traffic”…cry cry pant pout.
April 5th, 2008 at 5:34 pm
Court, while you are waiting for a site to get out of the sandbox, are you still working on it (adding posts or new pages, and writing articles or otherwise directing traffic to it?)
And is there a point when you can stop working on a site and traffic will still keep coming to it? I’m guessing that the less competitive the niche you are targeting, the less you have to work on the site regularly - because there aren’t a lot of people rushing in to create new sites that push you off the google front page.
April 6th, 2008 at 12:22 pm
That depends on what type of site it is.. if it’s a niche site that will always be small, I won’t work on it much.
If it’s a flagship blog, I’ll keep working on it, as I did when CourtneyTuttle.com was in the sandbox.
Yes there is a point when traffic will just keep coming and that comes more quickly with a less competitive niche.
April 6th, 2008 at 3:04 am
so many “ever” you was made
what are you mean about that? thank you
April 6th, 2008 at 11:01 am
Last one I gave up on is when I realized that no one searches for the stupid keywords I was targetting and wordtrack, overture, and keyworddiscover had it listed as different.
April 6th, 2008 at 11:18 am
Court. The Churchill of IM.
“Never, never, in nothing great or small, large or petty, never give in except to convictions of honour and good sense. Never yield to force; never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the enemy (unless you’re a noob targeting “credit card”).”
- Winston Churchill
April 6th, 2008 at 12:40 pm
Very great. I love the article. It is very informative. Thanks for the informations
April 7th, 2008 at 12:00 am
It seems that my site is classic for the sandbox by your definition.
So as I understand it the right thing to do is sit and watch for few more months.
April 7th, 2008 at 1:50 am
Great post. So as a beginner I should choose between a moderately competitive keyword that has more income potential if I’m patient and work hard and it gets a high ranking in Google, or a less competitive keyword that will rank me higher quicker but in the long-run not have as much income potential - am I right? Or do both have the same income potential? Personally I’m leaning toward not-very-competitive keywords.
April 7th, 2008 at 10:54 am
They both have a lot of potential! The nice thing about keywords with little competition is that you can get ranked more quickly. I have site that target both types because they both have their advantages.
April 7th, 2008 at 10:48 am
This may be a little off-topic, Court, but what is the largest distance in SERPs placement between different datacenters you’ve seen?
The reason I ask is that some of my sites show up on the first page at McDar, but in individual Google searches they are on the 4th or 5th page. I realize the datacenters are different, I just wouldn’t think they’d be THAT different.
Cheers.
April 7th, 2008 at 10:55 am
Aaron I’ve actually seen difference much larger than that. I have seen a first page ranking on one data center while another data center showed no ranking within 100 pages. It’s definitely weird but can happen. I wouldn’t worry about it - just keep working on it and you will eventually get a more solid page 1 ranking.
April 9th, 2008 at 2:32 am
i don’t really ditch any sites … I consider selling them if I think I can profit from it
April 10th, 2008 at 2:38 pm
I fully agree that you should never abandon a site, sometimes even if Google has banned it. The thing is, if you fully believe in what you’re talking about on your site, and you know you haven’t been pulling any black hat tactics, then you can talk to Google about getting your site unbanned. It’s not impossible. Don’t give up on a site that is working, even if it’s taking slightly longer to get traction than you expected.